Biden needs to step aside

[Kishkumen]

First, I appreciate the grace and kindness that you so often extend to me. I sincerely mean that.

Likewise.

If this were just a bad day, I would agree with you. This is not that. This is clear. If anyone wishes to pretend otherwise, I guess I don't have any real issues with that. Pretend away.

Well, we’ve seen him have plenty of good days. He’s very old, but we are low on choices. I don’t consider Trump a better choice any day, and I would rather have Biden on a bad day than any day of Trump. There is just not much going on with Trump that aligns with responsible statesmanship at any time.

[Morley]

That was a real banger, Jersey Girl. Maybe next debate he’ll perform better. I also think in a week everyone will have moved on - November is a long way away, politically.

Yes, Biden will undoubtably do better in September. Doing better then than he did in this debate is pretty low bar. Even if it happens, I fear that that hoped for achievement will be too little, too late.

It's true that both Obama and Reagan fumbled their first debates and then went on to win a second term. They didn't flub up in this way, however. They didn't project a persona that was frail, elderly, and mentally diminished. Biden didn't need to win--he did, however, need to cast doubt on rumors that he's in decline. Instead, every move he made reinforced those doubts. As much as we might hate the fact, it's true that the art of politics is the art of managing perceptions.

His hale appearance the day after the debate helps very little. The perception of Biden's increasing senescence has been publicly confirmed. Everyone knows that grandpa has both bad days and good, but they still don't trust him with the car keys.

This is not going away next week.

Biden has about one week in which he could step aside, recommend a successor, and turn things over to the party for its August convention--and even then, it's a rocky and unsure terrain. That said, I don't think he'll do it. He's too insulated by handpicked advisors, and the political hubris that drives a person to seek political office is not easily dislodged.

I fear for my country.

[Morley]

I might disagree about the best strategy for November, but I think Democrats have some long-term thinking they need to get their heads wrapped around and fast. Although the GenZers in my life are still going to support Biden I'm not sure how many more election cycles we have of them feeling ignored before we face real consequences.

That isn't only in reference to the actual candidate selection either. But rather policy positions and messaging as well. Democrats have yet to figure out the difficult balancing act of preserving the old blue dog and centrist elements of the part while appealing to the more leftist wing. Understandably the balancing act was heavily disrupted by the GOPs strategic shift, specifically around Trump and Project 2025, that left Democrat leadership uncertain on what to do.

Well said.

[ceeboo]

Well, we’ve seen him have plenty of good days. He’s very old, but we are low on choices. I don’t consider Trump a better choice any day, and I would rather have Biden on a bad day than any day of Trump. There is just not much going on with Trump that aligns with responsible statesmanship at any time.

While I understand the position you're trying to lay out, I do not agree with the foundation that you're making it on - This is not about good days and bad days. This was not about a politician having a bad debate and hoping that he will have a better performance next time.

To see it that way, in my opinion, is to ignore the 800 pound elephant that is sitting on your nose. Truth be told, Biden is not well and for him and his family, it's sad, complicated, and ought to be addressed in privacy - For the rest of the world who is watching (American citizens certainly included) it's deeply concerning.

It seems like you do not see this in the same light, that's okay by me, so if you would rather leave it here, I'm good. If you want to continue the discussion, that is fine by me as well.

Thanks for engaging!

[Morley]

Hey Kish

Nice thoughts. I would say that many if not most 80+ folk have bad days.

First, I appreciate the grace and kindness that you so often extend to me. I sincerely mean that.

If this were just a bad day, I would agree with you. This is not that. This is clear. If anyone wishes to pretend otherwise, I guess I don't have any real issues with that. Pretend away.

In my opinion, the collective we ought to be protecting people who find themselves in this condition. In an attempt to be clear, I am not talking about political policies of any politician, I am not talking about Trump, I am not talking about comparing candidates on a ballot. I am not talking about voting. I am not talking about democracy.

Look, if Biden was my father/brother/loved one, I would have never allowed him to be thrown in an ocean of hungry sharks (a.k.a. - a debate viewed by the world - allies and enemies) - Given the obvious situation, I am sure there is a way that the DNC/his inner circle/The Constitution could create a path were he could step away with dignity and respect. In my opinion, that is the kind thing to do - it is exactly what should be done for Biden, for Biden's loved ones, for those who love and support Biden, and for America.

Ceeboo, given that you say that you're not speaking about the political aspects of this case, but as to what Biden's family should personally be doing to monitor and control him, I'm going to disagree. Here, you're assuming an expertise and training in psychology and family relations that you don't possess. Unless otherwise diagnosed, it should be assumed that Biden is fine and that he should be allowed to be in control of his own fate. Both he and his family know what he needs better than you or I do, watching from home. Neither of us has any idea of what's going on with him psychologically.

[Kishkumen]

While I understand the position you're trying to lay out, I do not agree with the foundation that you're making it on - This is not about good days and bad days. This was not about a politician having a bad debate and hoping that he will have a better performance next time.

To see it that way, in my opinion, is to ignore the 800 pound elephant that is sitting on your nose. Truth be told, Biden is not well and for him and his family, it's sad, complicated, and ought to be addressed in privacy - For the rest of the world who is watching (American citizens certainly included) it's deeply concerning.

It seems like you do not see this in the same light, that's okay by me, so if you would rather leave it here, I'm good. If you want to continue the discussion, that is fine by me as well.

Thanks for engaging!

Yes, Ceeboo. I don’t agree with you. He has given plenty of decent speeches (including one very shortly after the debate) and the very elderly do have good days and bad days. Hell, I have good days and bad days. I will go with the evidence of what I have seen over time, and you have not given me much evidence to counter that.

We have a choice between a con artist who has failed at almost every thing he has done, including his presidency, and an experienced politician who suffers from extreme old age. I will go with the latter. I agree in principle that it would have been better if we had been given two younger, healthier candidates in 2020. It would have been great if Democrats had nominated another person who could beat Trump in 2023. None of that happened.

The real reason we are here, however, is that the GOP has completely gone off the rails and rejected Constitutional government in favor of authoritarian populism. You can track that abdication of sanity to every bad option we have today. I will be generous enough to acknowledge that this is a global phenomenon. Past that, I don’t have much to offer.

Do I think Biden is perfectly healthy? No. 80+ people rarely are. Trump has never been a decent, well-informed, thoughtful, public-spirited or spiritual person. On top of that, the man is obese, lives on Big Macs, doesn’t sleep regularly and doesn’t exercise. His thoughts on everything are incoherent, as far as I have heard. His character is disgusting.

There is so much wrong with Trump that a Trump-voter’s concern about Biden’s health genuinely puzzles me.

[ceeboo]

While I understand the position you're trying to lay out, I do not agree with the foundation that you're making it on - This is not about good days and bad days. This was not about a politician having a bad debate and hoping that he will have a better performance next time.

To see it that way, in my opinion, is to ignore the 800 pound elephant that is sitting on your nose. Truth be told, Biden is not well and for him and his family, it's sad, complicated, and ought to be addressed in privacy - For the rest of the world who is watching (American citizens certainly included) it's deeply concerning.

It seems like you do not see this in the same light, that's okay by me, so if you would rather leave it here, I'm good. If you want to continue the discussion, that is fine by me as well.

Thanks for engaging!

Yes, Ceeboo. I don’t agree with you. He has given plenty of decent speeches (including one very shortly after the debate) and the very elderly do have good days and bad days. Hell, I have good days and bad days. I will go with the evidence of what I have seen over time, and you have not given me much evidence to counter that.

We have a choice between a con artist who has failed at almost every thing he has done, including his presidency, and an experienced politician who suffers from extreme old age. I will go with the latter. I agree in principle that it would have been better if we had been given two younger, healthier candidates in 2020. It would have been great if Democrats had nominated another person who could beat Trump in 2023. None of that happened.

The real reason we are here, however, is that the GOP has completely gone off the rails and rejected Constitutional government in favor of authoritarian populism. You can track that abdication of sanity to every bad option we have today. I will be generous enough to acknowledge that this is a global phenomenon. Past that, I don’t have much to offer.

Do I think Biden is perfectly healthy? No. 80+ people rarely are. Trump has never been a decent, well-informed, thoughtful, public-spirited or spiritual person. On top of that, the man is obese, lives on Big Macs, doesn’t sleep regularly and doesn’t exercise. His thoughts on everything are incoherent, as far as I have heard. His character is disgusting.

There is so much wrong with Trump that a Trump-voter’s concern about Biden’s health genuinely puzzles me.

Fair enough, Kish.

Thanks for sharing your perspective.

[Moksha]

How do you debate against someone who lies nonstop?

[Doctor CamNC4Me]

How do you debate against someone who lies nonstop?

Just start barking at him until he freaks out.

- Doc

[honorentheos]

I had hoped Biden was claiming he would run again to avoid the issues that come from being a lame duck president. When the primaries began and it was clear this wasn't the case, I made peace with it pretty quickly because the administration is solid. Push comes to shove, Biden stepping aside is a question of political gamesmanship not ability to govern.

The other issue regarding, "If not Biden then who?" is perplexing. I don't mean as a replacement for Biden. I mean as the party moves forward in 2028 and beyond. How does anyone represent the multiple often conflicting values and positions shoved together under the same roof by our system? Sanders was winning in 2020 for the very same reasons Trump won the Republican nom in 2016 against a divided field that had much more in common with each other than their fringe challengers. The difference between the outcomes basically being due to the Democrat process distributing electoral votes based on win percentage rather than having a winner take all process, and the four remaining moderates uniting against Sanders when it was clear they were dividing the moderate vote. But as in 2020, I have to hope it sorts out in the process.

Basically, it's not even close when it comes to comparing the two parties and their ability to manage, negotiate, and govern. Not. Even. Close.

I really genuinely don't care what fake concerned naysayers want to believe about Biden. We are substantially better off with Biden in the White House than we were with Trump and that's what actually matters.