Hillary 2.0

[honorentheos]

An issue behind the messaging attacking Harris is how it reflects what women in the work force have faced for as long as women have been in the workforce. All too many are held to a standard requiring near perfection amongst mid male peers. Harris isn't up to the job? Based on what standard? There isn't an objective measure here, instead it's the same water cooler gossip about giving blow jobs in exchange for being promoted by men.

It's BS, dantana. It just is. And it's BS being spread by BS people.

[dantana]

An issue behind the messaging attacking Harris is how it reflects what women in the work force have faced for as long as women have been in the workforce. All too many are held to a standard requiring near perfection amongst mid male peers. Harris isn't up to the job? Based on what standard? There isn't an objective measure here, instead it's the same water cooler gossip about giving blow jobs in exchange for being promoted by men.

It's BS, dantana. It just is. And it's BS being spread by BS people.

We're working from different blueprints on here Honor.

On this board, there are two classes of posters. Just about everyone on here, to the person, is highly educated and highly intellectual. I am on the JV squad. I am not ashamed of that. You engineers are up there in your lofts with your black line drawings and your sheer wall calcs, I'm down here in the mud trying to nail together footing forms from the plan - thinking, I wonder if any of you architects have ever even owned a hammer, because, this just isn't going together. Sometimes Honor, the engineer needs input from the grunt.

You know everything there is to know about politics, gender identity issues. You name it. I am out here in the weeds with the rednecks calling out measurements. That's it.

[Res Ipsa]

Harris is already losing lots of votes from the Progressive Wing of her party. That’s exactly the problem the Democrats face — when you have a broad based, diverse coalition that makes up your party, you need all the votes. It’s only because Trump presents such a dire threat to our system of government that Harris can reach out to non-Trump Relief Society with having the entire progressive wing head for the exits.

It’s only because Trump is so off the charts horrible for the future of our country that I’ve never bothered to talk about my view of Biden and Harris. In my opinion they’ve badly fumbled on several issues that will be biting the US for, perhaps, the rest of my life. So, if we had an election where the R candidate wasn’t talking a wrecking ball to my country, I’d have happily supported a decent progressive candidate over Biden or Harris. I might have cast a protest vote in the final regardless.

But the Relief Society took that option away by backing the same anti-American, anti-democracy fascist who pissed all over my vote for the guy that won the last election. I have exactly no hesitation in using my vote to make sure the sonofabitch who deliberately sabotaged disaster relief efforts to my fellow Americans who lost everything — who lost homes, friends, and family and were isolated by flooded and destroyed roads and bridges. The guy who took one of circumstances that bring out the very best in Americans — events when we become those best selves that aspires to be — and to a giant crap in middle of it. Because turning things and people to crap is his special talent.

Ever since the inception of the Southern Strategy and the subsequent rise of the political religious right, the Republican Party played Lucy and the football with its Charlie Brown right wing. Except, starting with the Tea Party, Charlie Brown seized the ball and took over the game.

The progressive Ds are still Charlie Brown, with Lucy delivering us a severe scolding when we try to, you know, get something for our support of the mainstream Democrats. The most ridiculous Big Lie out there is that folks like Clinton, Biden and Harris are anything other than middle of the road Ds.

That’s the practical problem that the Democrats have with holding their voting coalition together. And losing progressive wing would be a horrible trade off. Progressives and progressive organizations work their butts off in elections in a that I doubt liberal republicans ever would.

And, look, I don’t have a litmus test in terms of race or sex of a candidate, but if your message is that only white mean can save the Democratic Party, you can kiss the mainstream Democratic base goodbye.

Thanks for typing this up Res. Well said, and, What the ever living Fuuk? What is so hard about this?

I didn't say "only a white man can save the D. party", or I personally will only vote for a white man, or I wish Michelle Obama was a white man. I didn't hint at that, imply it or write it on a note and throw it in the ocean.

I said, or tried to say - If one wants to pry away votes from the MAGA mob, a group of racist, sexist homophobes, one is prob. going to need to run a white guy. So look -

KH. was one of the first to flunk out of the 2020 primary due to lack of support.

There was time this summer to run a mini primary but, I think someone put their finger on the scale.

We are in a dead heat with an imbecile with KH at the wheel. We shouldn't be in a dead heat with an imbecile at this stage in the era of Trump.

Joe B. beat the imbecile once before. Joe B. was polling above the imbecile before it became confirmed he had lost his wits. If Joe B. were ten years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation. Joe Biden is a white guy.

OK, here’s the fuuk.

Drumdude argued that Harris was not the perfect or ideal candidate. I responded by arguing that searching for a perfect or ideal candidate is futile. You responded to me by suggesting that it’s pretty easy to find a white guy.

Now, as a preliminary, please understand that I understand how to use both the quote function and quotation marks. If I want to refer to the exact words you typed, I will use the quote figure or quotation marks. If I don’t, then I am not attempting to talk about the exact words you typed, but am talking about the implication or ramifications of the words you typed.

So, my only response to “I didn’t say that” is “I didn’t say you said that.” Sorry, but this one of my pet peeves, and is not personal to you.

To the substance, I will plead guilty to using hyperbole to illustrate a point. However extreme I was, I would suggest that it was pretty mild compared to the likely reaction of, at a minimum, the progressive wing, and, more likely, mainstream female Democrats who have spent their lives advocating for equal rights for women, to the suggestion that the way forward for the Democratic Party is to nominate a white man. Of course that would be easy — the party has done that in every election in its history except for two.

It’s not that nominating a white man would be bad. It’s the notion that the party faces some kind of electability problem best addressed by nominating a white man that’s the problem. It’s poor optics and runs counter to its values.

In addition, I don’t think we should view Trump’s MAGA movement as normal behavior of citizens during an election. People in a populist mass movement headed by an authoritarian are a special case. Are racism and sexism at play in the MAGA movement? Sure. Will simply running a white make candidate peel off many voters? I’m skeptical because there is lots more going on than racism and sexism. There isn’t just anger and resentment at women and non-white folks at taking away stuff that MAGA folks deserve —it’s anger at democrats for taking away stuff that MAGA folks deserve and giving them to the unworthy. The sex or race of the Democrat doesn’t matter.

Anyway, if you thought my first response was unfair, I apologize for that.

[dantana]

Thank you for that post Res. Part of the reason I don't post that much on here is that I tend to be a little thin skinned. So, when I feel like I'm taking a hit, real of misinterpreted, I tend to focus on retaliation rather than listening. That's on me.

[honorentheos]

An issue behind the messaging attacking Harris is how it reflects what women in the work force have faced for as long as women have been in the workforce. All too many are held to a standard requiring near perfection amongst mid male peers. Harris isn't up to the job? Based on what standard? There isn't an objective measure here, instead it's the same water cooler gossip about giving blow jobs in exchange for being promoted by men.

It's BS, dantana. It just is. And it's BS being spread by BS people.

We're working from different blueprints on here Honor.

On this board, there are two classes of posters. Just about everyone on here, to the person, is highly educated and highly intellectual. I am on the JV squad. I am not ashamed of that. You engineers are up there in your lofts with your black line drawings and your sheer wall calcs, I'm down here in the mud trying to nail together footing forms from the plan - thinking, I wonder if any of you architects have ever even owned a hammer, because, this just isn't going together. Sometimes Honor, the engineer needs input from the grunt.

You know everything there is to know about politics, gender identity issues. You name it. I am out here in the weeds with the rednecks calling out measurements. That's it.

I didn't intend to make my replies personal, which is why I changed my first comment. That comment, if you didn't see it, was a reply to the idea we needed to send in the a-team. Effectively, I said something to the effect of sewing an "A" patch on then. I thought better of it as it was directed at you rather than the message but probably made it worse by referencing it.

I do have zero sympathy for the ideas being aimed at Harris and have every intention to treat them like a mustang would a rattlesnake when they pop up. But I apologize that it took a form that included you as a person. That was bad form on my part.

[Jersey Girl]

We're working from different blueprints on here Honor.

On this board, there are two classes of posters. Just about everyone on here, to the person, is highly educated and highly intellectual. I am on the JV squad. I am not ashamed of that. You engineers are up there in your lofts with your black line drawings and your sheer wall calcs, I'm down here in the mud trying to nail together footing forms from the plan - thinking, I wonder if any of you architects have ever even owned a hammer, because, this just isn't going together. Sometimes Honor, the engineer needs input from the grunt.

You know everything there is to know about politics, gender identity issues. You name it. I am out here in the weeds with the rednecks calling out measurements. That's it.

Pretty sure I qualify as grunt, too. Agree that these guys have knowledge coming out of their eyeballs that I'll never have. That said, this board is more well rounded than you might suspect. We all learn something from each other here grunt and engineer alike. Post at will I say!

p.s. I own a hammer and a nice collection of power tools.

[Moksha]

Pretty sure I qualify as grunt, too.

We can all be useful in bringing Gatorade to our scholastic team.

[Res Ipsa]

It could be remembered that we do not have a two party system, we usually have two leading parties. My ballot had ten people to choose from for president.

My ballot had four to choose from for president.

Washington is weird. I think we had four flavors of socialist candidates.

[Res Ipsa]

Thank you for that post Res. Part of the reason I don't post that much on here is that I tend to be a little thin skinned. So, when I feel like I'm taking a hit, real of misinterpreted, I tend to focus on retaliation rather than listening. That's on me.

Hey, please feel free to call me out is you think I’m going after you personally. I don’t mean to, but I do get carried away in my own rhetoric.

Never in my life did I imagine that we would be having to navigate the situation we are in today. Given the Holocaust, I never thought we would have to cope with a Mass movement in the US in which Americans deployed eliminationist rhetoric against other Americans. It’s mind blowing.

I think it’s really hard to navigate this environment without throwing elbow at folks that should be allies. I don’t love Liz Cheney. I hold her responsible for the politics that enabled Trump, But I respect her for sacrificing her political career and putting country over party. And I’ll welcome her as an ally.

I appreciate your comments, and onward we go.

[Morley]

We're working from different blueprints on here Honor.

On this board, there are two classes of posters. Just about everyone on here, to the person, is highly educated and highly intellectual. I am on the JV squad. I am not ashamed of that. You engineers are up there in your lofts with your black line drawings and your sheer wall calcs, I'm down here in the mud trying to nail together footing forms from the plan - thinking, I wonder if any of you architects have ever even owned a hammer, because, this just isn't going together. Sometimes Honor, the engineer needs input from the grunt.

You know everything there is to know about politics, gender identity issues. You name it. I am out here in the weeds with the rednecks calling out measurements. That's it.

Dantana, you sometimes show yourself as one of the smartest posters on this board, with insights that no one else seems have. For example, your challenge to Atlantic Mike ranks as one of the most thoughtful, well-crafted pieces that I've read here in Spirit in the last couple of years.

One of the reasons for a board like this is to try out new concepts. Everyone here occasionally throws out ideas that don't float or are poorly formed. That's as it should be. On more than one occasion, doing so has helped me to refine my thinking on an issue--and I think every veteran poster here would say the same.

You were right to challenge to the concept of a Harris candidacy this go-round. While I don't completely agree, I think it was something that needed to be articulated. In less than a week, we'll see whether or not we should be reconsidering every assumption we've made about this race.