Hillary 2.0

[canpakes]

Again, I know why - the question is do you know why identity politics were left off the agenda?

Because, Ceeboo, the caricature of identity politics that you’ve been led to believe is central to D party is a lie.

If Ceeboo believes that identity politics are a central feature of Harris rallies, then I’d ask him to post some examples for discussion.

But, Ceebs is mad at me for asking questions like that. ; )

[honorentheos]

Because, Ceeboo, the caricature of identity politics that you’ve been led to believe is central to D party is a lie.

If Ceeboo believes that identity politics are a central feature of Harris rallies, then I’d ask him to post some examples for discussion.

But, Ceebs is mad at me for asking questions like that. ; )

As I read it, ceebs latched onto my comment and read it as Harris is intentionally hiding this aspect of their true nature from voters during rallies. Because what other meaning would a person take from this?

The folks who make a big issue out of identity pretend that “black” is an identity but “white” is not; that “female” is, but “male” is not; that “gay” is, but “straight” is not; that “atheist” is but “Christian” is not; that “trans” is, but “cis” is not. All politics is identity politics. Accusing Haitians of eating pets is identity politics. Claiming Americans are held hostage in their homes by immigrants who are savage animals and not people is identity politics. Calling a black female Vice President a”ho” and a “c” is identity politics. Only the lucky members of majority identity groups have the luxury of pretending that they don’t engage in identity politics.

Hey Res,

Agreed, though I do think there is policy and political ideology as alternatives. As noted in the quote from Barbara Walters on the indicators a country is primed for civil war is "citizens in a country organise themselves into political parties based on ethnic, religious, or racial identity rather than ideology."

Ceeboo may think this is all Democrats pushing identity politics but he'd probably wonder why it was left off the agenda in most Democrat rallies. Trump? Does the guy ever talk about anything OTHER than identity politics?

I don't know if he is just playing dumb in a weak attempt to score a point or genuinely can't read that for what it says. Either way, to quote classic Twitter Trump: SAD

I mean he seems to have decided the response needed was to assert he didn't wonder why, he knows why. And there really is a pedophile ring in the pizza parlor basement, that's not just a claim pushed by rightwing media. Of course they won't have evidence out of the basement! You have to charge in there with an AR-15! And even then they'll probably disguise it so you can't find the basement. Democrats are SO evil! We know this because our media sources tell us this!

Ok.

[dantana]

I'm not with you on this one Res. I think the Democrats could run PeeWee effing Herman in his coffin and not lose a single Democrat vote. It's the Twump base that need to be appealed to. The ones that can be swung over by posting up the perfect hybrid. A big, brash, good-looking white guy. A cross between Fetterman, Shapiro and Newsome.

He must be out there somewhere. Go find him as... we're probably gonna need him in about 4.

Harris is already losing lots of votes from the Progressive Wing of her party. That’s exactly the problem the Democrats face — when you have a broad based, diverse coalition that makes up your party, you need all the votes. It’s only because Trump presents such a dire threat to our system of government that Harris can reach out to non-Trump Relief Society with having the entire progressive wing head for the exits.

It’s only because Trump is so off the charts horrible for the future of our country that I’ve never bothered to talk about my view of Biden and Harris. In my opinion they’ve badly fumbled on several issues that will be biting the US for, perhaps, the rest of my life. So, if we had an election where the R candidate wasn’t talking a wrecking ball to my country, I’d have happily supported a decent progressive candidate over Biden or Harris. I might have cast a protest vote in the final regardless.

But the Relief Society took that option away by backing the same anti-American, anti-democracy fascist who pissed all over my vote for the guy that won the last election. I have exactly no hesitation in using my vote to make sure the sonofabitch who deliberately sabotaged disaster relief efforts to my fellow Americans who lost everything — who lost homes, friends, and family and were isolated by flooded and destroyed roads and bridges. The guy who took one of circumstances that bring out the very best in Americans — events when we become those best selves that aspires to be — and to a giant crap in middle of it. Because turning things and people to crap is his special talent.

Ever since the inception of the Southern Strategy and the subsequent rise of the political religious right, the Republican Party played Lucy and the football with its Charlie Brown right wing. Except, starting with the Tea Party, Charlie Brown seized the ball and took over the game.

The progressive Ds are still Charlie Brown, with Lucy delivering us a severe scolding when we try to, you know, get something for our support of the mainstream Democrats. The most ridiculous Big Lie out there is that folks like Clinton, Biden and Harris are anything other than middle of the road Ds.

That’s the practical problem that the Democrats have with holding their voting coalition together. And losing progressive wing would be a horrible trade off. Progressives and progressive organizations work their butts off in elections in a that I doubt liberal republicans ever would.

And, look, I don’t have a litmus test in terms of race or sex of a candidate, but if your message is that only white mean can save the Democratic Party, you can kiss the mainstream Democratic base goodbye.

Thanks for typing this up Res. Well said, and, What the ever living Fuuk? What is so hard about this?

I didn't say "only a white man can save the D. party", or I personally will only vote for a white man, or I wish Michelle Obama was a white man. I didn't hint at that, imply it or write it on a note and throw it in the ocean.

I said, or tried to say - If one wants to pry away votes from the MAGA mob, a group of racist, sexist homophobes, one is prob. going to need to run a white guy. So look -

KH. was one of the first to flunk out of the 2020 primary due to lack of support.

There was time this summer to run a mini primary but, I think someone put their finger on the scale.

We are in a dead heat with an imbecile with KH at the wheel. We shouldn't be in a dead heat with an imbecile at this stage in the era of Trump.

Joe B. beat the imbecile once before. Joe B. was polling above the imbecile before it became confirmed he had lost his wits. If Joe B. were ten years younger we wouldn't be having this conversation. Joe Biden is a white guy.

[dantana]

In the classes of - red neck, blue collar and so-called country boys, not all of them are idiots. There will be plenty of these, coupled with the undecideds who will vote for the guy who isn't a clownstick. As long as it's a white male.

I don't know what Pam is saying because no volume is coming through. I assume though that it is an attempt to mock my post and me. If it isn't, then I apologize for this -

How to make an apology: I'm sorry, my bad.

How not to: I'm sorry, but if you wouldn't have done this and that...

How to call off people marching on what they think are your orders: Stand down now. Get the Fuuk out of my hallowed halls or I'll come down there and crack heads myself.

How not to: I know you're hurting. I know you want to kill a lib right now. Good for you, but you need to stand down now because that's what they're telling me I should say.

How to walk back snark: Sorry about the snark, I'd like to take that back.

How not to: (Honorentheos paraphrased) I'm walking back the snark, but Imma have to go ahead and lay down some psychoanalysis on you because I see that you're not smart enough to figure this out on your own.

edit: I'm walking back my snark. I don't think there is a perfect candidate that can represent a majority of Americans no matter how we slice it. In the case of Trump, I think Harris ate his lunch in the debate, soundly putting to bed any honest question of if she could handle him or the other authoritarians in the world when she is in office. I genuinely believe what you are experiencing are the effects of negative political campaigning which is at its heights going into the final stretch. Both parties are working most hard to discourage voters who might vote for the other candidate from turning out. It's much easier and effective than trying to convince someone to flip. Be calm and look hard at where your fears are originating.

[honorentheos]

I don't know what Pam is saying because no volume is coming through. I assume though that it is an attempt to mock my post and me. If it isn't, then I apologize for this -

How to make an apology: I'm sorry, my bad.

How not to: I'm sorry, but if you wouldn't have done this and that...

How to call off people marching on what they think are your orders: Stand down now. Get the Fuuk out of my hallowed halls or I'll come down there and crack heads myself.

How not to: I know you're hurting. I know you want to kill a lib right now. Good for you, but you need to stand down now because that's what they're telling me I should say.

How to walk back snark: Sorry about the snark, I'd like to take that back.

How not to: (Honorentheos paraphrased) I'm walking back the snark, but Imma have to go ahead and lay down some psychoanalysis on you because I see that you're not mart enough to figure this out on your own.

edit: I'm walking back my snark. I don't think there is a perfect candidate that can represent a majority of Americans no matter how we slice it. In the case of Trump, I think Harris ate his lunch in the debate, soundly putting to bed any honest question of if she could handle him or the other authoritarians in the world when she is in office. I genuinely believe what you are experiencing are the effects of negative political campaigning which is at its heights going into the final stretch. Both parties are working most hard to discourage voters who might vote for the other candidate from turning out. It's much easier and effective than trying to convince someone to flip. Be calm and look hard at where your fears are originating.

The image is of her saying, "They are the same picture."

Effectively arguing Democrats should appease Trump voters to try and win some over in selecting a candidate for President as much like Trump as possible to maintain their backward norms is a bad call. Period.

The idea Harris was forced on voters is a political message pushed by Republicans and the Trump campaign. I'm sorry, not sorry, it's working on you.

The potential for chaos and Trump to have walked into an easy victory was enormous after Biden's very poor debate performance. Then the assassination attempted occured.

Pivoting support to the other person on the Biden/Harris ticket wasn't a given but not only did Harris masterfully unite the party but energized voters who were already sitting this one out due to feeling unrepresented.

It's not a close race because Harris is a bad candidate and many other could be cleaning Trump's clock. Most people voting are doing so for ideas, or sitting the election out due to ideas. The ideas are molded and projected around the candidates but the American electorate is narrowly divided between the two major parties due to processes that are running all the time, adjusting messaging, polling, observing election outcomes.

I don't know what else to tell you. I'm not trying to appease you. You got caught in a fabricated hysteria. You can calm down and figure out where it's coming from or be pulled under by it I guess.

[Brack]

It could be remembered that we do not have a two party system, we usually have two leading parties. My ballot had ten people to choose from for president.

My ballot had four to choose from for president.

[ceeboo]

Because, Ceeboo, the caricature of identity politics that you’ve been led to believe is central to D party is a lie.

If Ceeboo believes that identity politics are a central feature of Harris rallies, then I’d ask him to post some examples for discussion.

But, Ceebs is mad at me for asking questions like that. ; )

Actually, Ceeboo isn't mad at anyone. Ceeboo gets very tired of trying explain things, over and over, to people like you that ought to be fairly clear to begin with.

In this example: You imply that Ceeboo believes that identity politics are a central feature of Harris rallies - when in reality, the truth is exactly the opposite of what you imply.

Ceeboo has stated - several times in this thread - that he knows why identity politics have not been on the agenda at Harris rallies.

You see, attempting to reply, over and over, to things that you imagine in your head (a.k.a.- things that I have never stated and that you made up), is exhausting and it's the main reason I rarely reply to your posts that are typically littered with fiction.

[Vēritās]

Summary: If the powers that be truly believe that another Trump term would be the end of life as we know it, why the F. didn't they run a candidate who had the best chance of defeating him.

"Powers that be" is stupid talk offered by conspiracy theorists. Do you now understand how our election system works?

And it really doesn't matter who is the D candidate because he or she will still have to run through the gauntlet of Right Wing fascist like propaganda unscathed which never happens. This country has been polarized by Right Wing propaganda since the 90's when Talk Radio folks like Rush Limbaugh and FOX News started entertaining certain people and then convincing them to hate all other people in the country that didn't agree with them. Sean Hannity for years calls his callers "great Americans" simply for agreeing with him. Everyone else is a Communist.

Like Res said, the Democrats could nominate Jesus Christ and the Right Wing hate machine would start attacking him and start calling him a CINO.

[canpakes]

If Ceeboo believes that identity politics are a central feature of Harris rallies, then I’d ask him to post some examples for discussion.

But, Ceebs is mad at me for asking questions like that. ; )

Actually, Ceeboo isn't mad at anyone. Ceeboo gets very tired of trying explain things, over and over, to people like you that ought to be fairly clear to begin with.

In this example: You imply that Ceeboo believes that identity politics are a central feature of Harris rallies - when in reality, the truth is exactly the opposite of what you imply.

Ceeboo has stated - several times in this thread - that he knows why identity politics have not been on the agenda at Harris rallies.

You see, attempting to reply, over and over, to things that you imagine in your head (a.k.a.- things that I have never stated and that you made up), is exhausting and it's the main reason I rarely reply to your posts that are typically littered with fiction.

Two things:

1. You missed the word, ‘if’. It was the first word of my reply.

2. You have rarely explained anything when asked. This is a reliable feature of your posting. I count on it, in fact. A great example of this was that recent thread of yours implying that DEI was to blame for alleged security failures at the rally that Trump was shot at. I asked you how you would go about determining if DEI could be to blame at all, and how you could eliminate the possibility that a ‘non DEI’ hire could not have made the same mistakes. Your inability or unwillingness to address those questions said more about your thought process than what you did say.

You can’t be exhausted repeating things that you never were able to discuss in the first place.

[dantana]

"Powers that be" is stupid talk offered by conspiracy theorists. Do you now understand how our election system works?

And it really doesn't matter who is the D candidate because he or she will still have to run through the gauntlet of Right Wing fascist like propaganda unscathed which never happens. This country has been polarized by Right Wing propaganda since the 90's when Talk Radio folks like Rush Limbaugh and FOX News started entertaining certain people and then convincing them to hate all other people in the country that didn't agree with them. Sean Hannity for years calls his callers "great Americans" simply for agreeing with him. Everyone else is a Communist.

Like Res said, the Democrats could nominate Jesus Christ and the Right Wing hate machine would start attacking him and start calling him a CINO.

Yeah, Ok. in the light of right side conspiracy drama 'the powers that be' can be considered stupid. How about I just change the phrase to influence? You know, like McConnell has more influence than Johnny Joe Idaho. Jr. senator from Boise. Trump influenced the killing of the border bill. Some say some influencers that be sabotaged Bernie in 2016. The OP links to an article from 'The Hill' where the author suggests Obama and Pelosi influenced the Democrats to not hold a mini primary.

Whatever.

Anyway, be nice, Goddammit. I've spent enough time already having to think up angry retorts to posters who want a piece of me on here. For the paltry little crime of challenging Kamala's mandate. I'm sorry not sorry I ever did that.