I see Ceeboo has decided to stick with derailing this thread.
This thread started as an argument about the state of the off-topic forum. The "tribute" part of the thread was tacked on later.
Complaining about the discussion of the original topic seems very disingenuous. Something an apologist would do. You should stop gaslighting like that.
If Lem wanted to make a tribute thread to Grendael, that would be awesome. But it would have been very different to the way this thread was created.
Incorrect. I have responded multiple times to this, so I’ll just re-post:
Well there’s a call for new mods that presumably shades saw on the other board and decided not to act on.
So the call is being made once again, here? The tribute aspect of this thread was tacked on hastily after the fact, so I think that’s a bit disingenuous.
What? No, the title evolved as I was trying to decide how to say it, but the OP has always been the same:
These two trolls are only pretending to have a legitimate concern. They are here to troll the board, and Shades, unfortunately, has decided to accommodate them. It’s unfortunate but Shades holds the power and apparently he has decided that the trolls have a point. Any legitimate, serious analysis of trolling would note that the two trolls are taking advantage of Shades’ “free speech” position, to the detriment of the board.
Shades made the same mistake with his Mentalgymnast “Jubilee,” the end result being that we did not hear from our friend Grindael during the last year of his life. This lack of understanding on his part of the damage done by trolls is in no way excused by his free speech commitment. There are ways to maintain free speech without letting trolls destroy a community. Shades has apparently chosen to not investigate that, but his choice is not acceptable as a position that benefits our society as a whole.
In my opinion, all we can do is ignore the trolls, and hope Shades’ actions don’t result in another friend of ours spending the last year of his life elsewhere.
So the goal here is to get Consiglieri, and Simon Southerton, and some of the other well known posters to take sides in a long-standing dispute between a few posters in the off topic forum?
I thought I was pretty clear the last couple of times you asked about intent, at least for the OP, but I'll try again:
With no apparent moderation currently in place, there doesn't seem to be anything to do except ignore them, which isn't really an effective solution.
This thread was just a reminder of how trolling can disrupt a community and lead to voices being silenced. And I still miss grindael, whose voice was silenced here, for what would turn out to be the last year of his life, by just such a disruption. Hence the title. That's all. Thanks for reading, and thanks for your comments.
I understand your point Lem. I don't have a problem with you adjusting the topic of the thread, but I do have a problem with gaslighting. I'm talking about Doc saying that those "two trolls" defending themselves is somehow derailing this thread.
You started this thread specifically to discuss those "two trolls." It's in your first sentence. No one should be surprised that this thread isn't primarily a tribute to Grindael, because you opened with a discussion of two posters from the other forum in your opening sentence.
A much more effective tribute to Grindael would have begun, with a tribute to Grindael.
I understand your point Lem. I don't have a problem with you adjusting the topic of the thread, but I do have a problem with gaslighting. I'm talking about Doc saying that those "two trolls" defending themselves is somehow derailing this thread.
You started this thread specifically to discuss those "two trolls." It's in your first sentence. No one should be surprised that this thread isn't primarily a tribute to Grindael, because you opened with a discussion of two posters from the other forum in your opening sentence.
A much more effective tribute to Grindael would have begun, with a tribute to Grindael.
We disagree, then, on where the emphasis should lie in order to make a point. in my opinion, the effective tribute ends with grindael, as per the OP:
These two trolls are only pretending to have a legitimate concern. They are here to troll the board, and Shades, unfortunately, has decided to accommodate them. It’s unfortunate but Shades holds the power and apparently he has decided that the trolls have a point. Any legitimate, serious analysis of trolling would note that the two trolls are taking advantage of Shades’ “free speech” position, to the detriment of the board.
Shades made the same mistake with his Mentalgymnast “Jubilee,” the end result being that we did not hear from our friend Grindael during the last year of his life. This lack of understanding on his part of the damage done by trolls is in no way excused by his free speech commitment. There are ways to maintain free speech without letting trolls destroy a community. Shades has apparently chosen to not investigate that, but his choice is not acceptable as a position that benefits our society as a whole.
In my opinion, all we can do is ignore the trolls, and hope Shades’ actions don’t result in another friend of ours spending the last year of his life elsewhere.
Yeah, the purpose of this thread was clearly not *just* or even *primarily* about a tribute to grindael.
Obviously.
That said, I am happy to see all of the lovely tributes that have been added.
Me too.
The right move, in my opinion, is to have someone take about 25 pages of this 26 page thread (all the mud) and split it off from this thread title - and kick it back to where it came - so it can actually be "A Tribute to Grindael."
I understand your point Lem. I don't have a problem with you adjusting the topic of the thread, but I do have a problem with gaslighting. I'm talking about Doc saying that those "two trolls" defending themselves is somehow derailing this thread.
You started this thread specifically to discuss those "two trolls." It's in your first sentence. No one should be surprised that this thread isn't primarily a tribute to Grindael, because you opened with a discussion of two posters from the other forum in your opening sentence.
A much more effective tribute to Grindael would have begun, with a tribute to Grindael.
“Defending themselves.”
I’m just going with the thread’s proprietor’s stated aim. She literally changed the title to “A tribute to Grindael.” Once she did that, and explained her reasoning for doing so, how am I gaslighting for contributing to her thread with on-topic posts?
I popped in once since I saw this thread and realized what we're talking about and didn't even read a thread, so I'm just claiming ignorance all around.
I'm guessing that's because the trolling posts outweighed the substantive posts, which is the issue currently destroying many conversations.
Grindael was an interesting cat, and I enjoyed his posts.
Yeah, the purpose of this thread was clearly not *just* or even *primarily* about a tribute to grindael.
Obviously.
That said, I am happy to see all of the lovely tributes that have been added.
Me too.
The right move, in my opinion, is to have someone take about 25 pages of this 26 page thread (all the mud) and split it off from this thread title - and kick it back to where it came - so it can actually be "A Tribute to Grindael."
Just my thoughts.
You mean like...a moderator?
LIGHT HAS A NAME
We only get stronger when we are lifting something that is heavier than what we are used to. ~ KF
I understand your point Lem. I don't have a problem with you adjusting the topic of the thread, but I do have a problem with gaslighting. I'm talking about Doc saying that those "two trolls" defending themselves is somehow derailing this thread.
You started this thread specifically to discuss those "two trolls." It's in your first sentence. No one should be surprised that this thread isn't primarily a tribute to Grindael, because you opened with a discussion of two posters from the other forum in your opening sentence.
A much more effective tribute to Grindael would have begun, with a tribute to Grindael.
We disagree, then, on where the emphasis should lie in order to make a point. in my opinion, the effective tribute ends with grindael, as per the opening post:
These two trolls are only pretending to have a legitimate concern. They are here to troll the board, and Shades, unfortunately, has decided to accommodate them. It’s unfortunate but Shades holds the power and apparently he has decided that the trolls have a point. Any legitimate, serious analysis of trolling would note that the two trolls are taking advantage of Shades’ “free speech” position, to the detriment of the board.
Shades made the same mistake with his Mentalgymnast “Jubilee,” the end result being that we did not hear from our friend Grindael during the last year of his life. This lack of understanding on his part of the damage done by trolls is in no way excused by his free speech commitment. There are ways to maintain free speech without letting trolls destroy a community. Shades has apparently chosen to not investigate that, but his choice is not acceptable as a position that benefits our society as a whole.
In my opinion, all we can do is ignore the trolls, and hope Shades’ actions don’t result in another friend of ours spending the last year of his life elsewhere.
Come on, Lem. You want me to believe your opening paragraph is just completely secondary to the purpose of you creating the thread?
How often do you bury the primary point you are making inside a post in the middle or end of it? This really feels like gaslighting, even if it's unintentional on your part.
We disagree, then, on where the emphasis should lie in order to make a point. in my opinion, the effective tribute ends with grindael, as per the opening post:
Come on, Lem. You want me to believe your opening paragraph is just completely secondary to the purpose of you creating the thread?
How often do you bury the primary point you are making inside a post in the middle or end of it? This really feels like gaslighting, even if it's unintentional on your part.
I will be sure to pass your comment along to my publisher.
She literally changed the title to “A tribute to Grindael.” Once she did that, and explained her reasoning for doing so, how am I gaslighting for contributing to her thread with on-topic posts?
Because you weren't the one being called out in the original post.
What a great tactic to create a thread calling someone out, then change it to a tribute to a deceased poster and complain when those called out don't shut up.
I will be sure to pass your comment along to my publisher.